How much am I worth? What are you willing to pay?
7/3/12 :: Calculating the Value of Art with a Self-Experience.
I admit it, I love to help people. In fact, I need your help and participation with this blog post. As both an artist and a person who enjoys collecting art I have been asking myself some critical questions to help break some old patterns. I feel that artists can often fall into the trap of either over selling or under selling their works (myself included.) This does not apply to those who opt out of selling their work by choice. (Although I am interested in why?) This blog post has evolved into a research project, so lets consider this part one.
You may post your comments here below or e-mail them to me through this blog. You may choose to remain anonymous if you wish. It is my intention to consolidate the responses and update this post with answers to the questions directly below them. I believe there is a great amount of value in the answers that will manifest here. As I mentioned, this blog post is a micro test and an effort to record an array of thoughts and experiences that people have, and have had on the subject of questioning the value and pricing of art. It also explores the self promotion and marketing aspect of the measures that lead to a potential transaction. This is also a place to simply voice your opinions and address the questions below.
A:: If you are the viewer and potential patron of purchasing a work of art please consider and answer::
1. How often do you see a work of art that you love and desire for your personal collection or home, only to be turned off or shocked by the price?
2. How do you calculate the value of a work of art that you desire? Do you simply take someone else’s word for it, or do you ask yourself this question?
3. Is the price tag enough information to help dismiss any further action? If so, Why?
4. What is your price range on purchasing original art? Do you, or are you willing to approach the artist and negotiate? Do you have a story that you would like to share?
5. As the person making the purchase of original art, is it important for you to meet the artist in person? Yes or no, Please describe why?
B:: If you are the artist making the sale, or seeking to makes sales::
1. Is it important for you to meet the patron(s) in person? Yes or no, Please describe why? Would you like to share a succes story?
2. What are your current advertising and marketing strategies for promoting your work? Is this important to you, please describe.
3. How often do you test, alter or change your advertising, marketing, and promotion strategies? How do you know when to do so?
C:: If you are the artist, but you opt out of showing and selling your work.
1. You’re an artist, but you intentionally opt out of showing and selling your work, please explain why?
2. You’re an artist, but you intentionally opt out of sharing your work online (blog, website, social media) please explain why?
Link to the Original post:: http://wp.me/p2SFO-M5
Great topic Ryan,
This is Leon Reid IV, public artist based in Brooklyn. I choose to sell my works through my agent Lenora Hendley that I’ve contracted to facilitate sales on my behalf. You can see my available works here:
http://www.leonthe4th.com/works/1.html
The art market is not facilitated by artists and therefore does not have their best interests in mind. The art market is designed to financially reward the broker/gallery/auction house and protect the interests of the collectors and sellers of art. I don’t think there is any other form of business where a selling agent “gallery” for our purpose, will take 50% of the price of each product sold (common gallery commission). Furthermore, most galleries discourage collectors from having direct contact with their artists; this of course is to keep the artist ignorant of their patrons and prevent the collector from purchasing directly from the artist -effectively cutting the gallery out of their commission. Practices like these make the artist perpetually dependent on a market that does not serve them and explains why so many artists find it impossible to make a living from their work.
Today artists are fortunate to have so many entrepreneurial tools at their disposal. Kickstarter, a crowd funding site that specializes in creative projects allows artists to raise funds to support their work. The process is completely transparent and allows artists to collect the information of their patrons. The age of social media has also changed the landscape of art exhibition. An artist can buy wine, cheese and crackers, hang their own solo exhibition in their studio then email, facebook, twitter and pin it to their list of supporters across the web.
As artists, we need to dispel the myth of the magical gallery that discovers us, feeds and clothes us. We need to recognize that our work has value, both monetary and aesthetic, and we need to LEVERAGE that value so that we can discover, feed and clothe ourselves.
Thanks so much Leon! This is great info! Thanks you for sharing the link to your site and works as well. Your site is clean and easy to navigate, I feel that this is crucial for a potential sale as well as bringing visitors back to the site. I love your reference to kickstarter, which I know you have had succes with. (If you have not heard about kickstarter.com check it out) I also love the idea of the artist hosting a studio exhibition of their works, where the artists can CHOOSE exactly how they want to set up, promote the event, and conduct sales directly with their potential patrons. Social media has indeed made this reach possible, and that gives me a few new ideas. (I will share them here as they firm up.)
Hi Ryan!
Christi Nielsen here.
I’ve never wanted to purchase a piece and been turned off by the price, but it doesn’t mean that I can afford it. 🙂
I’ve never thought to approach the artist to negotiate, as I would never want someone doing that to me.
I do like meeting the artist because they usually have something to say about the work that makes me appreciate it even more.
I don’t necessary need to meet the buyer, but it’s nice.
Right now I’m in the middle of re-evaluating marketing/pricing etc, and quite frankly, am not sure what to do. I do use social media heavily.
Just a quick note about galleries. I totally agree with what Leon said about it being difficult to sell without a gallery and how they usually cater to the collector, not the artist. Add to that my experiences working in galleries, and I don’t even bother with them much these days. I saw so many artists getting ripped off, I couldn’t believe it. I know I know, not all galleries do that. But I’ve heard from many others that a lot do. The most annoying thing for me are these galleries who are now charging more and more… charging the ARTIST to have a show. Or charging artists to submit work to a juried show. I actually don’t mind paying a nominal fee for that because they are paying the jurors, but the fees have gotten ridiculous. So yes, “dispel the myth of the magical gallery.”
I see art that i love pretty much everyday… and must say after growing up in an artistic household i have a good idea of what that price tag will say. but its always funny when i’m a couple thousand off target. I calculate the value of the work by the status of the artist, famous, well known or trying to pay rent (me). also how i come across the art… everything great in my life so far has found me first, then i just see it staring at me and it feels like oh duh OF COURSE and go for it. No one can tell me if somethings cool or not. If i have to ask myself if i want it, i know i don’t. I wouldn’t say the price tag is enough information, after asking some questions, maybe you could find out that the artist was going through some profound period of time in their life when the work was created that connects with you, therefore giving the desired art so much more meaning. As an artist, I do not question truly original art. it is what it is. If it is out of the question, smile, nod, and walk away. But appreciate everything. As for buying original art, it wouldn’t matter so much to me if i met them or not, i prefer the mystery.
OH yeah!! i love to see the kind of people who dig my art. How i am advertising myself right now is through the internet, instagram, twitter, facebook…. Im changing all the time, so my art is changing, the people who appreciate it change, so i also need to change how im sellin it. The only reason why i would not opt out of showing my work is if i loved so much to keep for my own apartment 😀
Hi Christi! 😀 Thank you so much for your feedback. I feel that a lot of artists are feeling a similar way about both galleries (and of course, not all of them) as well as how to market and promote themselves in this fast changing flux like landscape. I am resonating with what you and Leon have both said. A new emphasis has taken over my own practice with such things, and it is not by any means complete. I find myself taking a more, and may I use the word “spiritual” approach to things. By creating and sharing a space (like this blog post) with a focus on “yes, I am an artist just like you with the same feelings, how can I help others while also helping myself?” I feel that this is very helpful, inspiring, and puts me in a position to not focus so much on a polarized result or outcome of NEED. The feelings of choice feel so much better than any need. There is great value in archiving this kind of information as it will help others. thank you so much sharing!
An anonymous reader sent in the following comment on 7/9/12 ::
“Tough questions for a non-“artist”. Artists as I’ve noticed in their answers have similar frustrations that relate to the art world itself. From a broader sales and marketing perspective; you’re asking all the right questions and there is a whole entire industry that revolves around searching for the answers. Depending on your product, they 3 keys are to find, connect and engage your target consumer. Much easier said than done. Much research and cash is needed. “
So much great energy building here! Thanks so much for the feedback Shea and “Anonymous”
Hi Ryan, as an artist first and collector second, I could probably address all of these questions… but for the sake of time:
B:: If you are the artist making the sale, or seeking to makes sales::
1. Is it important for you to meet the patron(s) in person?
Yes… and vice versa. I’m a major advocate of studio visits… not only are you able to view the work in person (which is important), you can spend time discussing the piece with the artist in their creative habitat. Process goes beyond the creation of the work, there is an entire lifeline of a canvas from store to wall.
2. What are your current advertising and marketing strategies for promoting your work? Is this important to you, please describe.
Majorly important, and my strategy revolves around the basic structure in existence for most brands: Core Website > Facebook Page > Twitter > LinkedIn > Targeted Press Distribution > Interpersonal Outreach > In-Person Visibility.
3. How often do you test, alter or change your advertising, marketing, and promotion strategies? How do you know when to do so?
Modifications are made on a daily basis in a micro fashion… if things are working, it’s about tweaking. Creatives often have a difficult time committing to one thing for a long time… a logo, website, design, etc. For independent artists, time and energy is best focused on the work… without strong results, all the promotional effort in the world isn’t going to help you advance to the next level.
– Borbay
Thanks so much for the feedback Borbay! It shows us another fantastic potentiality of how we can indeed plan and choose the way(s) that we can participate and interact from both sides of the coin (artist & Collector), as well as the importance of expanding our knowledge of both positions. It raises even more questions: As an artist, what does it “feel like” to be in the shoes of the collector and potential patron? And, how often do we ever ask ourselves that question? Do artists really know who their potential collectors are? Thanks so much for the responses. I highly recommend anyone who reads this to check out your blog for more info on “how” you navigate this topic ( http://borbay.com )
My name is Pleas Tolbert; I’m a painter/multi media illustrator and fine art photographer, 23 years of age. I have my BFA from Auburn University and I’m working toward my MFA in fine arts. I’m currently in motorcycle mechanics institute because I also have a love for motorcycles, I would like to also say to you Ryan, this is such a great topic and I hope you get more replies to help with what I think will become a great study. It is very necessary.
1. Is it important for you to meet the patron(s) in person? Yes or no, Please describe why? Would you like to share a success story? Yes, when I first started creating my work, it was very personal; I really gave an effort to keep it hidden from the public. Someone wanted to buy a piece from me, and I really didn’t want to sell it or part with it but, I thought to myself, “This piece could travel with this person and have other people question what is the story behind it? I think that is one of the main reason I love being an artist is to aspire others to think and reflect. I have only sold few pieces but I keep of log of the Patrons, I honestly will not sell to anyone if I think this person takes my work in vain. I have conversations with the people interested in buying my art because I want to know why this piece or why art in general appeals to them. I always say that if the general public likes the work you do, then do not shy away and that’s kind of what I live by in my artistry. I do not seek to sell art, but I like to show my work and get comments, critiques, etc. I really believe in art in the community so that’s my take on that.
2. What are your current advertising and marketing strategies for promoting your work? Is this important to you, please describe.
I do not believe in marketing myself. I feel that in the age and generation we live in there are so many branches of social media, and I use twitter, tumblr, and flickr as ways to showcase work. It really started to show distance friends but a lot of the general public has taken a liking to my work. So I feel I’m not really in the space of selling myself, but I do take advantage of social media to put some of my work on display. I honestly do not show some of my work because it’s just personal to me. I don’t think it’s important to market yourself, and I guess it’s because I look at artistry in an organic way. I like to let my work manifest itself instead of attempting to sell it and if someone like it and wants to purchase the piece and I agree to sell then, that’s just that.
3. How often do you test, alter, or change your advertising, marketing, and promotional strategies? How do you know when you do so?
I don’t really attempt to sell myself. If the work I do is in someone’s interest to purchase then I’m open to it. I think in all forms of art that’s how it should be, if you put something out there and someone wants to own it and you are will to part with it, then it should not be a crime to do so. This goes all the way back to bartering time when people would trade spices for leathers and others forms of cultural creations.
Pleas,
Thank you so much for your feedback. I love you interdisciplinary learning experiences of an MFA in fine arts juxtapozed with a motorcycle degree! Applying what you learn those two experiences will result in something awesome! I am a big advocate of that. I hold three different degrees, all of which are in art disciplines, but I am now seeking a 4th degree in a science of some kind. Marketing has certainly changed these days due to social media, and even though it may not seem intentional, if you are posting your work on social media, you are certainly using a form of marketing. It may be more subtle than an in your face kind of advertisement, but when it begins to reach others, and they begin to pass it along, that is sharing, but it is also promoting and marketing. I think this is a brilliant form of marketing because the results as you mentioned are much more organic. What I like about that statement is that you are simply “allowing.” It does not seem like there is too much attachment to the process, and that in the end will certainly bring back results! When we put something out into this huge universe with out a need or attachment to it, it sends a very open signal “out there” to bring us back something we would be open to experience. I know so many artist who spend as much as $5,000 a year on all kinds of marketing services that bring back little or not one single sale. I keep telling them that their inner need is so strong that they are not open to anything else, so that actually reverses the effect they are hoping for. I am curious as to what you mean by creating some works that are very personal to you. Does this mean that these works are created for only you to see and experience? If so, what happens to those pieces 5-10 years from now? As you change and evolve, will your thoughts change about those works? Thank so much for your response! I am looking forward to checking out your work!
Ryan, When I said that about those certain works that are personal to me. They are at this point work I have not shown to anyone. And I feel that in the future there will be a place for them to be shown but I feel at this point in my life, I am seeking for a reason to show them. Its interesting that you ask the question, What happens to these pieces years from now, I feel that things may change and as I add more to that personal collection of my own work, I can form a statement as to why these were hidden. I’ve thought about it alot already but I feel I’m too young and haven’t experienced enough to let these pieces be shown, not that I think that they are more important or better than past work, its just that I feel everything has its place and I’m still seeking for that with these and with time I’m pretty sure I will figure it out. Does that make sense? Also I completely understand what you mean about the marketing, its really bigger than what I thought about it. When you let something go onto the web, there is an infinite amount of eyes that can possibly see it. Again I think this is great what you are doing.
That makes perfect sense! I really appreciate your feedback and fantastic insights! Thanks so much for participating here with us. It is my intention to gather an array of diverse commentary from artists, art collectors, and creatives from all walks of life and from various stages of their careers. Good to see you on flickr as well.
This series of answers came in by e-mail from my friend and fellow artist David Sandum::
A:: If you are the viewer and potential patron of purchasing a work of art please consider and answer::
1. How often do you see a work of art that you love and desire for your personal collection or home, only to be turned off or shocked by the price?
As I know art, I seldom very surprised about the price and know approximately the value of the work I desire.
2. How do you calculate the value of a work of art that you desire? Do you simply take someone else’s word for it, or do you ask yourself this question?
I usually spot such work at galleries, but online it can often be hard to tell. I have seen work I thought would be very expensive sold cheap, and vice versa. It also depends if you see your purchase as an investment, or due to the love of the work itself. If costly, I usually check around a bit to see what work is sold for at other galleries etc. Online, I usually trade work with other artists.
3. Is the price tag enough information to help dismiss any further action? If so, Why?
It can be, simply because I can’t afford it. But I have purchased art at galleries with a 12 month payment plan. This have helped me acquire some work I couldn’t otherwise have afforded.
4. What is your price range on purchasing original art? Do you, or are you willing to approach the artist and negotiate? Do you have a story that you would like to share?
If a piece of work is over $1000 it will be difficult. But I have bought paintings for as much as $3000 through a gallery, with the 12 month payment price mentioned. The were both lithographs of Victor Sparre, a know Norwegian painter and graphic artist. See: http://www.cagalleri.no/ordliste/victor_sparre.htm These two: http://www.cagalleri.no/index.php?show=4&expand=4&visprodukt=1387 and http://www.cagalleri.no/index.php?show=4&expand=4&visprodukt=1388
5. As the person making the purchase of original art, is it important for you to meet the artist in person? Yes or no, Please describe why?
It is not important if I fall in love with the painting. But it helps to know the artist, and to be able to tell a story how the art was acquired etc, and any conversation about the art of piece purchased, well on the wall.
B:: If you are the artist making the sale, or seeking to makes sales::
1. Is it important for you to meet the patron(s) in person? Yes or no, Please describe why? Would you like to share a success story?
When I first started to paint and had exhibits, I would feel a driving need to explain to people what paintings meant, or my experiences behind them. I even wrote down such things on the back of some canvases sold. Eventually, I learned that some people were disturbed by this, and would like to make their own interpretations – or rather – not ruin their interpretations of the the work. Some also seemed stressed or thought I was trying to push my work on them at the gallery. So now I usually attend just the opening (where I talk to anyone interested – carefully), and if sold online, send a short greeting and only explain if the person asks. In my opinion, gallery owners often put artists in this position because they don’t do their job. They should find the interested people and introduce them to the artist. Otherwise, social media often gives such opportunities online, and I must admit, that I love sharing my thoughts behind my work if I can, or at least my vision about art, as a tool to express my experiences and emotions. But again, each person is entitled to their own.
2. What are your current advertising and marketing strategies for promoting your work? Is this important to you, please describe.
I started out with website and e-mail, in addition to gallery exhibits. Now I almost soly use twitter and facebook, and use my website to establish credibility. I am currently at a halt with galleries, feeling I need a break and to focus on painting.
3. How often do you test, alter or change your advertising, marketing, and promotion strategies? How do you know when to do so?
I usually adapt to the changes in the way people communicate, as explained above.
C:: If you are the artist, but you opt out of showing and selling your work.
1. You’re an artist, but you intentionally opt out of showing and selling your work, please explain why?
To paint and focus on my work. Currently I am also tired of working with galleries that expect me to do all the work, pay for frames, get people there, and pay 30-50% commission. I have also focused more and more on charity exhibits, such as #twitterartexhibit to promote good causes and spread my love of art for good causes. I now sell enough online to make the wheels go round, and in addition have 5 private students, who through their payments, help pay for my studio and materials.
2. You’re an artist, but you intentionally opt out of sharing your work online (blog, website, social media) please explain why?
Not existent! 🙂